36,000 vph

[george_]

υπαρχουν στο νετ τυποι που καθησαν και εφτιαξαν μια συλλογη με τιτλο 36,000 vph ...για ρολογια μιλαμε παντα!μηχανικα και quartz
ας δουμε μερικα σημεια .πρωτα ιστορια


The first effort to succeed was Girard Perregaux's effort which brought watches with 36kbph movemetns to market in 1996. A "joint effort" between Eberhard, Favre Leuba, Girard Perregaux and Zodiac purportedly contributed to the devleopment of these watches, or alternatively the automatic winding mechanism of these watches. The movements each manufacturer ultimately came entered the market with were different enough for parts to not interchange between them, so it very unlikely that any of the movements from these watch companies was the product of joint development. This means the first effort really produced 4 distinct movements, and the degree to which there was"joint development" is questionable. Girard Perregaux was not only the first, but was also unique in producing both manual and automatic high frequency movements.
In 1967 the Longines (cal. 430) "Ultra-Chron" movement appeared.
In 1968 Seiko (cal. 6145) movement introduced, Favre Leuba introduces cal. FL 1164 (day/date/automatic) based watches, Zodiac introduces cal. 88 (date/automatic) and 86 (day/date/automatic) watches, Movado introduces cal. 405 (day/date/automatice) and cal. 408  (date/automatic) watches.
In 1969 the Eterna (cal. 2732) movement introduce
In 1969 the Zenith (cal. 3019) "El Primero" was introduced. It was the first automatic chronograph with an integrated winding mechanism to be produced, and thusly is claimed to be the first automatic chronograph movement ever produced. In 1969, Movado, Zenith and Mondia merged into the MZM Group and Zenith announced the developement of the "first integrated automatic chronograph", hence El Primero (the first in Spanish), in January of 1969.
In 1969 Movado intrioduced the 405 (day/date/) and 408 (date) watches in their Kingmatic watches.

In 1970 A. Schild (cal. 1920) was introduced.
It is not clear when the Felca (cal. 4177) movement was introduced, but it was likely introduced in the 70s. This is one of the few manual hi beat wristwatch movements ever produced.
In 1975 the Citizen (cal. 7230) movement was introduced.
In the end, then 12 different watchmakers produced watches with high frequency movements of their own design and production: Eberhard, Favre Leuba, Girard Perregaux, Zodiac, Longines, Seiko, Eterna, Movado, Zenith, A. Schild, Felca and lastly Citizen.

 
While most of the movements developed were automatic movements, three of the manufacturers also made manual movement hi beat watches. Longines, Seiko and Felca all produced manual 36000 VPH movements. Low demand for manual wind watches, in the face of set and forget quartz watches, probably make these the rarest types of high frequency movement watches.

 
Watchmakers who produced watches using 36,000 vph movements are harder to track, due the number of watchmakers who made such watches, and the failure of a significant number of these watchmakers during this period. In some cases watchmakers outright failed, disappeared or shrunk to mere shadows of their former prominence, and in other cases, watchmakers failed and their names/brands were bought up by other companies, mostly the Swatch Group, principally for marketing purposes.

Hopefully this site will help expand the depth of knowledge watch collectors have about both 36000 bph watch movements and the watches which have been built with these movements.

[george_]

Why is a higher frequency movement more accurate?

At a very fundamental level, a higher frequency movement is more accurate than a lower frequency movement simply because it divides time into finer increments. Finer increments of time measurement translates into higher resolution which means a 36,000 bph movement is capable of 1/10th of a second timing where as a 28,800 bph movement is only capable of 1/8th of a second timing. Statistically high frequency watch movements should also be more accurate simply because the higher number of beats per time interval means that the stability of time keeping of these movements (i.e. the average accuracy) should be higher than a lower beat movement simple because the average is established over a greater number of beats. Put another way, the inaccuracy of any single beat has less of an impact on accuracy since more beats go into timekeeping for a given time period.

An article on this subject on timezone.com characterizes this another way. The article characterizes hi beat movements as more stable than lower beat movements. Based on the idea that disruptions of the timing train caused by physical shocks or changes are a major cause of watch inaccuracy, the article concludes that the finer timing interval of a high beat movement, means that the percentage of beats affected by a physical shock is smaller in a higher beat movement than a lower beat movement, and therefore a higher beat movement is a more stable time keeper than a lower beat movement.

[george_]

ποια πολυ γνωστη μηχανη ,μπορει χαλαρα να τρεξει και στις 36.000?
The technology is so similar that Ulysse Nardin uses a modified version of the 2824 as the basis for their 36,000 vph movement (cal. NB 11 QU) and ETA produced a high beat kit for the 2824 to turn it into a 36kbph movement.
παντου μια 2824...α ναι !και ενα moonwatch!μην το ξεχναμε 

[george_]

ωραια κια απο ακριβεια?αξιζει τοσο πολυ?
While 5 hertz movements are theoretically more accurate time keepers than 4 hertz movement, there are no definitive tests that prove this. Anecdotal testing seems to indicate that these movements are slightly more accurate than their 4 hertz counterparts, and in particular slightly more stable time keepers. Contrôle Officiel Suisse des Chronomètres, COSC, chronometer testing shows that 2824 movements specifically, and 28,800 bph movements in particular have no problems meeting COSC chronometer requirements, so even though these high beat movements maybe more accurate and/or more stable, there is no clear or public certification of this "advantage" so it is immaterial to the vast majority of watch buyers.

και ναι και οχι

[george_]

και γιατι δεν θα τα βρουμε σε πολλα ρολογια?

The last and probably the most accurate reason that high beat movements were not widely adopted is cost. High beat movements have always been more expensive than lower beat movements to produce. Special oils, special balances, some higher tolerance parts, and these movements end up being more expensive to produce

[george_]

What is the future of 36,000 bph movements?
The LVMH Group, which owns Zenith and Tag and continues to produce chronographs based on the El Primero movement with supply of El Primero movements to non-LVMH companies having ended.
 
Favre Leuba in 2009 announced two limited edition models using 36000 bph manual wind movements, The Favre Leuba 401 is an entirely new movement, featuring not only a 36kbph beat frequency, but also an 8 day power reserve and classic Favre Leuba twin barrel, and the other watch Favre Leuba is producing is based on an old-stock A Schild. high frequency movement. The 8 day power reserve of the new Favre Leuba movement is particularly noteworthy as this achievement would seem to indicate that power consumption concerns with these movements have been addressed over the past 40 years.
 
Seiko also announced in 2009 two new models with 36,000 vph movements, the SBGH001 and SBGH003, but automaitc date models. The development of these models is attributed to advance in hairsping technology. Seiko also has purportedly developed movements at beat frequencies of 43,200 vph.


την Zenith ,την αγορασαν για την μηχανη της...το χουμε ηδη πει στο φορουμ...και θα την δουμε σε πολλα ρολογακια...σαν βαση Η οτι αλλο...και αλλοι ομως ακολουθουν.....


Favre Leuba ,seiko...

Papi ,ανοιξες το δροομο στις 43.200

[george_]

τα υπολοιπα απο αυριο....

[george_]

αποψε η συνεχεια!!!

[george_]

καλα ,αργησα λιγο...

With the advent of electronic and quartz movements in the late fifties and mid sixties, purely mechanical movements increasingly became challenged to provide timekeeping accuracy equal to these approaches. In response, a relatively small group of watch manufacturers invested in increasing the speed of watch movements from 28800 BPH (4 Hz) to 36000 BPH (5 Hz) to improve accuracy, but given that quartz movements operate at over 32000 Hz (equivalent to 460+ Million BPH!), until there are quantum leaps forward in mechanical movement technology, the fastest beating mechanical movements are likely to remain 36000 VPH movements engineered in the early 1960s through the mid 1970s, and today only built by Zenith.

Zenith produced the 3019 PHC, the only high frequency automatic chronograph ever produced. Zenith continues to produce this movement today (now known as the cal. 400) , along with a manual wind variant (cal.405) and a full calendar and moonphase chronograph (cal. 410) version. The cal. 400 is also currently in use in the Tag Heuer Calibre 36 chronograph

[george_]

A. Schild developed one high frequent movement (Cal. AS 1920). It was used in Hamilton, Lucien Piccard, and Mido 36000 VPH watches.
 
Zenith produced the 3019 PHC, the only high frequency automatic chronograph ever produced. Zenith continues to produce this movement today (now known as the cal. 400) , along with a manual wind variant (cal.405) and a full calendar and moonphase chronograph (cal. 410) version. The cal. 400 is also currently in use in the Tag Heuer Calibre 36 chronograph. 
 
Movado produced the 405 (day/date) and 408 (date) automatic watch movements for use in their Kingmatic watches and in Zenith's AF/P (Alta Frequenza/Precizione - High Frequency/Precision) watches.
 
Felca, now called Titoni, manufactured their own high frequency movement(s) for a period of time and later on utilized ETA 2888 movement.
 
Eterna sold a few different movements (Cal. ETA 2824, 2826, 2832, 2834, 2837, 2888) to Waltham, Ulysses Nardin, Technos, Glycine, Cyma (Synchron), Borel, and likely all the other brands which cased 36000 BPH movements, that are not identified as having gotten their movements from A. Schild or Zenith in the preceding two paragraphes. As the largest Swiss manufacturers of mechanical movements during the heyday of these watches, Eterna movements were often a combination of modules applied to different base movements to achieve different specifications and features. The clearest example of this is the ETA 2824 movement which is probably the highest volume Swiss automatic movement currently in production and for which Eterna produced a 36,000 VPH kit. This means that the movement caliber can not be relied on to identiify an Eterna 36000 BPH movement watch and the only way to know for sure that a watch has a 36000 VPH movement is to put it on a timing machine and verify the frequency of the movement
 
As the mechanical watch industry and in particular the Swiss mechanical watch industry was reeling from the advent of inexpensive high accuracy quartz movement watches from Asian manufactures, in some cases, makers produced virtually identical watches under different brand names after consolidating or through outsourcing. Indeed for an industry built on craftmanship, these were dark days.