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ΡΟΛΟΓΙΑ => Επιλογή-Αγορά ρολογιού => Μήνυμα ξεκίνησε από: george_ στις Ιούλιος 17, 2009, 03:51:16 μμ
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Following my previous postings, most of you on the Seiko forum have probably come to know my postive impression and ownership satisfaction with the Seiko Prospex Marinemaster 300m. In my last review of the Doxa Sub vs the Seiko Marinemaster just a few weeks ago I stated ¡§I cannot say enough about the quality and value of this high-end Seiko Prospex diver. Its quality and finish is unrivalled in its price category of under $2000 and more so could easily go toe-to-toe with many of the more expensive high-end divers from the bigger names.¡¨
So on the weekend (with all due respect to the Doxa Sub), it was time to put those words to the sword when I met up with my brother-in-law for lunch who so happened to be wearing his Rolex 50th Anniversary Submariner (116610V) for a one-on-one match-up.
(http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/4314/seiko1.png) (http://img376.imageshack.us/i/seiko1.png/)
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Today among the general community, the Rolex brand is unarguably the most synonymous image of high-end luxurious Swiss mechanical watches steep in history and tradition. The brand is by far the most recognizable luxury name in the word. Seiko on the other hand are also widely recognised but more so for their offering of inexpensive quartz watches than for their quality or craftsmanship of mechanical watches. So in a show-down with the so-called king of divers that has a deep history of working alongside Comex and other professional diver to develop, how would the less touted Japanese domestic market Seiko MM hold-up against a giant from Switzerland like the anniversary edition green Submariner 116610V that has a market value over $6000 today. Of course a comparison with the similar standard 116610 Submariner (valued just over $4000) would be just the same as to my understanding the only difference between the standard Submariner and the anniversary edition beside the production number and green bezel insert is the maxi-dial found on the anniversary edition. The comparison for me is also interesting as it pits two truly in-house manufactured diver watches whose image are as polar apart as their origin.
Like before, I must state that my technical expertise for movement is pretty much minimal. This review is just my personal opinion base on my ownership experience of one and seeing and handling the other at close quarter.
So here are the details of both watches with photo illustrations.
(http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/2051/seiko2.png) (http://img190.imageshack.us/i/seiko2.png/)
(http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/4006/seiko3.png) (http://img217.imageshack.us/i/seiko3.png/)
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Case
The Rolex Oyster Submariner case has been around for well over 50 years (first introduced in 1953) and remains relatively unchanged over time other than improvement in the depth rating and replacement of the plexi-glass crystal to the current sapphire crystal in 1979. The Oyster Submariner is without a doubt the most recognizable and classic diver watch in the world where its simple and proven design has been copied over and over by many other manufacturers. The case of the Submariner measures 40mm x 12.8mm, with screw caseback, trip-lock screw-in crown and a water resistant rating of 300m.
The MM case is a unique monocoque design with an internal L-shaped gasket design structure that makes this a helium gas diver watch. The movement of the MM can only be accessed through the front. It measures 42mm x 14.6mm so it is a relatively larger and significantly thicker watch compared to the Submariner in person.
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/8434/seiko5.png) (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/seiko5.png/)
εδω η συνεχεια....
http://www.network54.com/Forum/78440/message/1185887022/Seiko+Marinemaster+300m+vs+Rolex+Submariner+300m+%28anniversary+edition%29 (http://www.network54.com/Forum/78440/message/1185887022/Seiko+Marinemaster+300m+vs+Rolex+Submariner+300m+%28anniversary+edition%29)
τα συμπερασματα δικα σας
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ΜΜ300
Φιλικά
Δημήτρης
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Rolex ασυζητητη ;) ;) ;)
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γνωμες και αποψεις φορουμιστων,απο watchuseek kai timezone
The MM is better than the Rolex. Last year I had a Rolex Seadweller. I loved the watch, but could not justify the cost. I traded it after about 6 months and went through several watches, including two (2) Speedy pro's, an Omega Planet Ocean and the MM. I traded the MM for a Doxa Carribean and recently managed to buy another one. IMHO, it's lume and bracelet is far superior to the Rolex product. The accuracy is also better
#2
You probably didn't know this, but the movement in the Marinemaster has some very unique technical aspects and it's based on and designed by some of the best movements ever created.
Back in the late 1960's, early 1970's, Seiko engineers were designing movements that were beating the best that the Swiss (including Rolex and Omega) could produce in international chronometer competitions. This is a fact. To go further, the Swiss were so fed up by the Japanese dominance that they eventually excluded them from competition. They didn't like to be beat.
The design of the 8L35 movement doesn't have a Breguet Overcoil but it does have a sophisticated arrangement (to acheive the same results) with the balance setup based on something called a Lossier curve. It provides very good isochronism and stability of rate. To the best of my knowledge, this system has only been used in the past on some vintage high grade chronometer movements and no one, save Seiko uses it today. It's unique and expensive to produce.
Seiko also has developed a very user friendly way to adjust the curb pins in adjusting amplitude.
Additionally, many well respected watchmakers, some who visit TZ and who are held in extremely high regard within the TZ community have commented on the automatic winding system calling it the simplest and most ingenious method out there.
People who know movements and work on them for a living have always had high praise for Seiko's high end offerings. Also, some of the most respected watch collectors in the world, including a super high profile Rolex collector, are also avid Seiko collectors.
I could go on and on about Seiko, their movements and their dive watch history, but I don't want to bore everyone. There you go, I said it all and I still have on a straight face.
Most people don't know about any of this because for the past 40 years, Seiko just quietly puts their energies into building outstanding high end products rather than creating marketing hype. It's as simple as that. [/i]
για την 1η αποψη ,δεν συμφωνω,αλλα ο 2ος που μιλαει για την μηχανη κατι θα ξερει....
specs:
The movement is an 8L35, an undecorated and unadjusted version of the high-end Grand Seiko 9S55. Rhodium-plated, 26 jewels, automatic, 28800vph (4Hz), handwind and hacking, 50 hour power reserve. The size of the balance wheel was increased to provide the torque required, as the hands are heavier than a dress watch. The 8L35 is also used in the Landmaster, which has the same hands.The movement by all accounts keeps excellent time, and in 9S55 trim is capable of exceeding COSC specs. Anecdotal reports on various fora indicate less than five seconds’ daily error is typical. The spec is -10 to +15 seconds per day.The 8L35 is completely in-house Seiko, and is descended from the 6159 300m diver, circa 1969. Everything from oil on up, including mainspring, is Seiko.
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:kg: sub off course ιδιεταιρα στην green edition ειναι ολα τα φραγκα ;)
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Μπορεί το ΜΜ να είναι ισάξιο και εφάμιλλο ενός sub, ίσως-ίσως (για μερικούς) και καλύτερο σε κάποιους τομείς (δεν είμαι τεχνικός και δεν μπορώ να έχω εμπεριστατωμένη άποψη), αλλά ως απλός καταναλωτής/αγοραστής λέω ότι το Sub είναι Rolex, ενώ το ΜΜ είναι Seiko, με ό,τι αυτό σημαίνει... :respect:
Νομίζω πώς πρέπει να προσγειωθούμε και να πατήσουμε τα πόδια μας στη γη, για να μην τρελαθούμε κιόλας....
Γιατί το ρολόϊ είναι κι αυτό ένα καταναλωτικό προϊόν, κι όχι μόνο μετρήσεις και προδιαγραφές...
Φιλικά Ηλίας
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Στα λεφτά του ROLEX έχω πραγματικά πάρα πολλές επιλογές που ίσως αυτή να είναι η χειρότερη !! :D
Οπότε θα έλεγα καλύτερα SEIKO
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Στα λεφτά του ROLEX έχω πραγματικά πάρα πολλές επιλογές που ίσως αυτή να είναι η χειρότερη !! :D
Οπότε θα έλεγα καλύτερα SEIKO
Συγκρινόμενο με rolex? ???
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MM
MM
MM
MM
MM
φιλικα
ενας κολλημενος.....
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Στα λεφτά του ROLEX έχω πραγματικά πάρα πολλές επιλογές που ίσως αυτή να είναι η χειρότερη !! :D
Οπότε θα έλεγα καλύτερα SEIKO
οπως?για πες? ;D
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size does matter
mm φυσικα!!!!
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αλλά ως απλός καταναλωτής/αγοραστής λέω ότι το Sub είναι Rolex, ενώ το ΜΜ είναι Seiko, με ό,τι αυτό σημαίνει...
:up:
Τα υπόλοιπα είναι πράσινα δαμάσκηνα και ψιλές ελιές.
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Συγκρινόμενο με rolex? ???
Ναι στην περίπτωση του ROLEX αναφερόμουν
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οπως?για πες? ;D
Εγώ προσωπικά δε θα έδινα τόσα λεφτά για ένα ρολόι . Θα προτιμούσα να πάρω 2-3 πιό φτηνά
Ενα για τη θάλασσα , ένα για καθημερινό και ένα πιό επίσημο.
Δεν εχω κάτι συγκεκριμένο στο μυαλό μου
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Στα λεφτά του ROLEX έχω πραγματικά πάρα πολλές επιλογές που ίσως αυτή να είναι η χειρότερη !! :D
Οπότε θα έλεγα καλύτερα SEIKO
Σωστό αυτό που λες όμως για κάποιο λόγο που δεν μπορώ να εξηγήσω τα ρόλεξ είναι τα μόνα ρολόγια που ως σύνολο όσο παλαιώνουν γίνονται και πιο ακριβά. Δεν χάνουν ποτέ την αξία τους παρόλο που το εργοστάσιο τα παράγει κατά χιλιάδες. Δεν είναι πολύ παράξενο;
Εμένα θα μου επιτρέψετε να ονειρεύομαι και τα 2.
Το σέικο ελπίζω να το αποκτήσω μέσα στην επόμενη χρονιά (έχω αρχίσει να σκάω)
Το ρόλεξ δεν το βιάζομαι αφού και σε 30 χρόνια πάλι εκεί θα είναι!!
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Για τι διαφορά τιμής μιλάμε;
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βάλε ένα ποσό της τάξης των 2500 ευρώ στην πιό καλή περίπτωση και είσαι κοντά νομίζω
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Αν σ αρέσει πολύ το Seiko, τότε πάρτο.. Είναι και μεγάλη η διαφορά της τιμής, που συνηγορεί υπερ του seiko. Αν όμως θέλεις να πάρεις ρολοι μια και καλή και να μην μπεις στην επιλογή κι ενός δεύτερου, τότε πάρε το Rolex. Οπως το βλέπει ο καθένας.
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και τα 2!
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Τότε αν τα χεις και μπορείς.., πάρε και τα δύο ;)